Lindsay Lou - Bluegrass Women

My guest this week is Lindsay Lou.

I chatted with Lindsay a while back, about her record Queen of Time. This time we're talking about her brand new record Bluegrass Women. Lindsay reveals how the project came about and why she wanted to make a record celebrating the contributions of women to bluegrass. We talk about the musicians on the record - including Sarah Jarosz, Sierra Hull, Molly Tuttle, Laurie Lewis and Alison Brown - and why mentorship and multi-generational music making are so important.

Lindsay also discusses the origin of some of the songs on the record, many of which will be familiar to regular listeners to bluegrass, but not everyone will realise they were written by women (I certainly didn't).

We also chat about the importance of vocal harmony and how Bluegrass Women was a natural progression from Queen of Time and its predecessor Southland.

Here's some info on where to buy or stream Bluegrass Women

You can check out the harmony singing lessons mentioned on Lindsay's Patreon page.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Then you find out, like, this song that you've been singing in jams was written by a woman that I don't exist was written by, you know, Ralph Stanley's wife, and All I Ever Love To You was written by Dorothy Skaggs, Ricky's Mama, and I've endured. You know, you learn the song from Tim O'Brien, and then you find out about Olivella Reed, and you do a deep dive in Olivella Reed. Like, you know, just sort of finding out about these the that women's voices were in this music all along. Now we're in this time where there's so many more women in the scene you go to a jam and you probably it might even be half and half.

Matt 1:03

Hi, this is Matt, and you listen to Bluegrass Jam Along the podcast for anyone and everyone who loves bluegrass everybody, welcome back to Bluegrass Jamalong. My guest on the podcast this week is Lindsay Lou, and we are talking about her brand new record, Bluegrass Women. Um, if you've been listening for a while, you'll know she came on to talk about Queen of Time a couple of years ago. That was a fascinating chat, and we chat about how this record sort of grew out of that and is a natural part of the progression she's been on through her last few records, and also why she wanted to celebrate the role of women in Bluegrass, not just today, but also kind of historically. Um, and the record features some of my favourite performers, not just female performers, but just you know, performers full stop from kind of the current times, people like Sierra Holler on there and Sarah Jerose. Um, but also people like Alison Brown and Laurie Lewis, who've been trailblazers and continue to be sort of an inspiration and mentors to people now. And so there's a fascinating thread of mentorship uh in the conversation, but also like why multi-generational uh relationships and and music are really important in string band music in a way that maybe they're not in some other kinds of music. So that was fascinating. Um, we chat about harmony and Lindsay's love of harmony singing and sort of how that's a big part of this record as well, and it was just a really fascinating conversation. You know, I I learned a lot about some of these songs, all of which were written by women, and some of them I didn't realise were I know them from other records. And so it's just a really fascinating conversation about a really cool record. Um, yeah, I really hope you enjoy this one. Here is my conversation with Lindsay Lou about bluegrass women. Lindsay, welcome back to Bluegrass Jamalong. It's great to see you again.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Matt 3:08

I'm looking forward to this conversation. Um the album is out in a couple of days as we speak, but by the time people hear this, it will be out. Uh the record's called Bluegrass Women. Um it is such a glorious listen. The music's great, like the the whole vibe of it is just beautiful. Um and I would love to know kind of what the seed was that kicked this project off.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Um I just you know but there's there's not a ton of or or like almost zero representation of women among like the forebears of of bluegrass music. You know, blue g the the bluegrass music that I love the most is like the you know forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, um, you know, the Stanley Brothers and and Bill Monroe and the Bluegrass Boys and Flat and Scrugs and and The Country Gentlemen, like all those old recordings are as really what made me fall in love with this music. And, you know, you'll notice among all of those names that I listed, there's not really very many women there. And then even into like the eighties and nineties, you got the bluegrass album band, and you got, you know, Sam Bush and Jerry Douglas and Keith Whitley, Ricky Skeggs, and and it's like, man, this music is incredible and it's like inspired so many of us, myself included. Um Yeah, so you just kind of notice that there's there's there just aren't really a ton of women there. And it doesn't really matter, it's just kind of something you notice, and you also notice uh, you know, when you're when you're a woman that uh if you once you start getting into this music and you start going to jams and you start playing gigs and and doing recording sessions, you find yourself being the only woman in the room in a lot of situations. And like I said, it's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just something that you notice. Um and it can kind of give you a little bit of a wonder if you belong, you know. Um not that that's like uh, you know, it doesn't hold you up. If you love it, you just do it anyway. Um but then do you you know, you picture it, you're you're me, you're falling in love with this music and you're playing these songs, and then and you and you've you know, you're sort of aware of the fact that there aren't very a ton of women in in it and and you're you're the only woman in the room a lot. But then you find out, like, oh, this song that you've been singing in jams was written by a woman. It was this I only exist was written by by you know Ralph Stanley's wife, and All I Ever Loved Was You was written by uh Dorothy Skeggs, Ricky's mama, uh, and you know, Jimmy Stanley and Joyce Morris wrote I only exist. And and I've endured, you find out about, you know, you've learned the song from Tim O'Brien, then you find out about Olivelle Reed and you do a deep dive on Olivelle Reed. Um and like, you know, just sort of finding out about these that that women's voices were in this music all along, you know, like now we're in this time where there's so many more women in the scene. You go to a jam and you've probably it might even be half and half, you know. But that's like 10 years ago, even I wasn't really having that experience. Um, so it's cool to see this shift. Um, and it's cool to see all these like young women coming up who are inspired by Molly Tuttle and and Sierra Hall and and to know that they were inspired by Rhonda Vincent and Allison Brown and Allison Krause, um, you know, among others, but uh just like like I was did an interview with Sierra Hall yesterday and she says she remembers seeing the Rhonda Vincent CD in the store and seeing a picture of her, you know, with her brown hair and her mandolin on the CD cover and saying, that's gonna be me someday. You know, just being able to like imagine yourself. And that's not to say that like Sam Bush and Chris Steeley didn't have a profound influence on her and and she doesn't, you know, but it's like there's there's also this like thing of of seeing somebody that's like you and get that giving you just like an another like special little jolt of encouragement and and ability to dream and envision uh envision yourself in the future. Um so you know it's all it's all important and it's all just cool. I just thought that it was so cool that there were these songs that were written by women that surprised me and just gave me like a little feeling of delight um and encouragement. Um and and so to put them all on one record uh just gives it like a a highlight or a spotlight. Um and and an opportunity to give a lot of other people who might not have otherwise ever thought about that, that that there were women who wrote some of these songs that they know and love. Um, you know, especially casual listeners and and festival goers and people who aren't like as nutty as we are and make this our whole life, you know. Um, but just gives them like a little like aha of surprise, you know. It's just cool. Um it's just a cool thing. And and we live in such a cool special time that I was able to just send out a text message to a bunch of my friends um who are also women who've had that same experience of being the only woman in the room and and also had that experience of seeing and knowing uh uh of having a mentor who was a a woman or a role model that inspired them, just getting us all together in a room to honor these these uh women who wrote these songs that we love. Uh it was just cool.

Matt 8:58

Well, and and you look at the people on the record and like there's two things. One is it just shows you what a like glorious age of female string band talent we are in at this point in time. Like just the you know l lick looking down the list of names and going, well, that's one of my favorite musicians. Well, that's one of my favorite musicians. But there's also the other side of it is it you talked about mentorship there and the people like Laurie Lewis and Allison Brown who've kind of really kind of paved the way and inspired people. And that multi-generational thing's a particularly lovely thing about it, I think.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah, totally. And you see, you know, you've seen this done um on other records throughout Bluegrass. Bluegrass has such a beautiful way of bridging generational gaps. Um But uh of all the records you think about, you know, it's all it's all men on the records, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just cool to also have this be, you know, something that is available for people to see and listen to and hear, um, you know, that we're here too.

Matt 10:01

Well, and Ian, you're sort of talking about realizing some of these songs that you'd known and loved and played were written by women. And I think in the age we're in now, if people aren't buying physical media and going through the liner notes like I did, like I learned about music by reading LP sleeves and CD notes and cassette boxes, and so you wouldn't know who wrote the songs necessarily. And so to have some of that kind of brought to people's attention is a really, really lovely thing, I think. And you sort of look back at the roots of string band music, and you've obviously got the Carter family, so you've got like this foundational band that are two-thirds female. But I I've read a lot about the kind of song collecting roots of Appalachian music and Cecil Sharp and Maud Carpellies grandma. And you look through the list of songs they've collected, and probably 80% of them are collected from women, not from men. And so there's this clear it almost feels like those songs were kept alive by women singing them in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a cool You know, and that's that's sort of been lost because AP Carter's name is on all of that. Even though the band was two-thirds women and the 80% of the songs are collected from women. When you look at even if you're somebody that looks at the liner notes, you're gonna see AP Carter's name on those on those tracks as the as the composer and the copyright owner. So um yeah, it just felt like a uh like it could be an important landmark to mark this cool, sweet time that we live, that there's so many amazing uh women in the scene, uh picking and playing and performing and and in the spotlight, um, and to show sort of where women's voices were in this music all along.

Matt 11:44

And and that praise women's voices, like the first thing when I first listened to the record, the thing that struck me more than anything is that like it feels like the central thing holding it all together is vocal harmony. Like it is a record. I mean, this is true of a lot of string band music, but I think more so for this record than anything I've heard for a while. It's just full of harmony.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Yeah, well I'm that's the thing that drew me to this music because I grew up singing with my family and and harmony, you know, uh conceptually and actually in practice and in thought, harmony is just like to me the coolest, most important thing. And you know, you hear Bill Monroe talk about what makes bluegrass bluegrass, and he says, gotta have those high lonesome harmonies, you know, and it's it's what draws me into the music. It's what I love so much about the music. So it's there's you know, I wanna I did all the the harmonies, you know, together, sung them all together, and and um that was like my in the in the mixing sessions. I was always like turn the harmonies up. Okay, turn the harmonies up more. Okay, now turn the harmonies up more. Cause like I wanted to feel like the the thing that I love about the music is standing in a circle, and there's like this thing that happens when you all have your heads together and you're singing these harmonies, and it's like the air changes in the room. And yeah, you go ahead. Um uh and I want the I want anybody who's listening to this to that's what I love so much. I want them to feel that, and so you gotta. It's not like harmonies and bluegrass aren't background parts, it's a part of the music. It's like the harmonies are are I want them. I tell every sound person too. I mean, I have my own sound person now, but I told them and I tell anybody I work with, like, I don't want harmonies mixed in the background, I want them at lead level because I want that's there's like the three voices combining into one is such a special thing.

Matt 13:50

And there's something, and I I'm not a harmony singer, but presumably there's something about singing all female harmony that, you know, it like you were saying, traditionally you go to a jam and most of the people there'd be male. So even if you were singing a harmony, the natural space for your voice might not be what it would be if you were singing with other women, and just to hear all those female voices, like the choices you can make are not based on fitting around the male register, they're based on where you'd want to sing them, and it just sounds so good.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Thanks. Um, you know, if you're I know this is a a bluegrass jam-along, and I imagine you jam. You just said you're not a harmony singer, and and so maybe it's worth mentioning that I I have a Patreon and once a month I post um a song with all of the parts so you can like sing along with me. Um I like record the harm the tenor part, the melody, and the baritone part, and then I mix it down so you can learn each part and then sing. You know, you can once you learn the tenor, you can sing it with just the melody, then you can sing it with the melody and the baritone, so you're like filling in the chord, and then you can, you know, once you learn the melody, you can sing it with the tenor and the baritone and fill in the melody, or you you know what I mean? It's like have it mixed so that you can sing along with me in all the different variations um to learn all the parts and and have that experience of of creating a chord with your voice, um, with me. Um so if you're if you want to learn how to sing harmony, I know where you can do it.

Matt 16:24

Well, we can stick a link in the show notes so everybody else can find that too. That sounds like a brilliant thing. I'll go and check that out. Um I was really interested, like, to were there people who were you like your first call when you thought, well, I'm gonna make this record. Were there people who you were like, these are the first people I'm calling for this one? Because there's such a you know great list of people on the road. Do you want to maybe talk us through who you've got for a start?

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Um yeah, I think I I hit up I knew I wanted Hazy Sacco's bass playing on most of the record. Um she was my roommate for a while, and her she has this like there's like this thing about a bluegrass certain bluegrass bass players. Um like she's got it. Uh, you know my my longtime bandmate PJ George plays bass this with this certain like attack and and and sensibility that like it just gives the the music such a spirit and I have this like recording of us picking on the porch at Petway Um and Hazy's playing bass, and I I'll I'll go back and listen to that sometimes and just like there's something about and she's so she's so deep in this like um tradition this Appalachian tradition. Um I knew I wanted her bass playing on a lot of it. Um I knew I wanted uh Tatiana Hargraves. Um I had done the transatlantic sessions with her and and got to jam with her a bunch and I just love her playing. It's like so special, you know. She's she's got that double stop, that old time um she's like you know, she's she like is twin fiddles in herself, you know, but then can do I mean there's just so much that she can do and it's so also she's so steeped in the tradition. Um and her I just love her playing so much. I knew I wanted her on as much of it as I could get. Um you know those those were some of my first calls. Uh Sierra Hall, I know I wanted her Mandolin on this. Um I love her playing so much. I you know, I just uh hilariously in the interview with with her yesterday, they asked me if I remembered where we met. And I've I couldn't remember where we met, and I didn't mention this in the interview, but it's kind of a funny thing that I think the first time I remember hearing about her, learning about her, was the night my boyfriend at the time broke his arm at the whiskey barrel in an arm wrestling competition. He had he had left home where he had been uh doing a Sierra Hall instructional DVD of like she was like a little girl teaching people how to play mandolin, and my college age boyfriend was learning how to play you know, learning some songs from Sierra on this homespun video. Um, and had left his that, you know, time he was he was having a little time in his room doing that to come to the whiskey rail with me and broke his arm that night. So that's that's like I think I remember him saying he was watching a Sierra Hall instructional and telling me about her and that she was uh this little girl who was just um so incredible and he was learning so much from her. But she's she's just I've did some touring with her. She let me hop on the bus with her and open some shows just solo, and I got to sing with her and sing on her record, and she's just it was so inspiring being on the road with her. She's just like so present, and she's obviously uh like a phenom. She's like a prodigy, you know, she was a child prodigy, and she's a uh uh I don't know if savant is the right word, but um you know, uh her the the time that she's put into her craft and her spirit and heart that she puts into her playing is is something else and and um uh but also and also she's so present and real and kind and her attitude is just like unmatched, her positive the her positivity and and just like um I don't know, I'm I'm just like uh such a fan and and friend. So she was somebody that uh that I knew I wanted to have on it. Um and I wanted, you know, Molly Toddle had been my neighbor and we had jammed a good bit and and she's such our Sierra and and Molly are are such important people. Um when you think about a record about bluegrass women and that's representing our time, you know, that's sort of putting a little timestamp on where we're at in history, um and the history of the music. Such important people. Sara Sarah DeRose um uh also. And Evo Donovan was somebody I really wanted on it too. She's Crooked Still was like such a big influence on me. And you think about you know falling in love with this music, but then also seeing feeling represented and seeing somebody that was doing it, um really doing it and sort of in a way that that gave me a feeling of oh, I can do this too, and I want to do this too, because look at how cool what they're doing is and and I could see myself in that world that they're creating within this greater world. Um You know, Allison Brown, I'll never forget hearing an Allison Brown record in my living room, you know, as I was diving learning learning more about this music and hearing her banjo playing and thinking how cool that was. Um it just feels cool and encouraging. Um you know, when when everybody you hear playing this music looks a certain way and is a certain sort of archetype, and then you see somebody that's that shares something with you that's that's also doing it. Um it just feels cool and encouraging. Um or not. So and you know, Allison Brown's been such a uh role model for so many people. Lori Lewis just happened to be I wouldn't have even thought that Lori Lewis was in my like like my Rolodex of people that I could just hit up and say, Hey, can you be on this record? But she happened to be in town mixing her own record uh and Hazy's in her band, and Hazy's like, Oh, Lori's in town when we were in the studio, and we had two days in the studio, so I was like, Can you give me her number? Can I can can you ask her if she can share a number with me? And I really want to ask her if she could come in tomorrow and and be on this session, and she was she said sure and she did. And and uh, you know, she was such a you hear people like Molly talk about how much of an influence um and Molly and Allison both attribute a lot to to her influence in in music on the in the West Coast bluegrass scene. Um, you know, Alison DeGroot, uh, Gina Britt, Brittany Haas, you know, I've I learned about from the Crooked Still days also, and and I've gotten to be in a lot of different jams with her and play play music with her just living in Nashville over the over the years. Um she also had me, she was doing some like social work, um, and asked me to I can't remember what it was. It was it was like working with women in prison, and I've got on the phone and and I can't I can't remember all the details about it, but she's just also such a cool all these people are all these women are are so cool and as people in addition to being such monster players, you know. Um, but she of course also is you know is the person that Gillian Welch and David Rawlings call to play in their band, and now she's in the Punch Brothers. So, you know, uh just uh just an incredible musician. Um trying to think I've you know I've have definitely wanted my bandmates who I'm so lucky to play and sing with and and wanted to have them. I there are people that I would have had sing, but uh on it that I didn't, you know, people like uh um I mean, all of these people, all of these women can sing, like Sierra and and and Gina, and but I I I saved a couple songs on even sessions they were on because I wanted uh Willa and Emma to sing with me. I knew I was gonna be touring these songs with them, and and we sing together so much because we've been on the road together that I saved a couple songs for them because I wanted their their voices and our harmonies to be on the record. But also their playing is so beautiful. Um uh Emma lives in Denver. I f I flew her in to be on the the session uh with Sarah and and Sarah Droze and and uh Brittany and and Alison DeGrude and Um, I know I'm um every time I do this, I'm like, oh, how can I have forgotten that person? Oh, Bronwyn, of course. Uh my partner was in Molly's Golden Highway band, and so I got to know Bronwyn more that way. Um, but Courtney Hartman, I'll never forget hearing her play uh at IBMA and and getting to know her playing more when she was with Delamay and she lives up in Wisconsin now, but I flew her down. Jenny Lynn also was in Delamay. Um, and she's like living a whole other life, but her playing and her musicianship and her friendship uh meant so much to me. I I flew her in and uh got her on the record. Um so yeah, I just was thinking about all these people that that were that I really have like a personal sort of story around um their their playing and and who they are.

Matt 26:28

It's really cool to hear you sort of telling those stories about like Sierra's story being inspired by Rhonda and seeing people like look like you because I I obviously know this is a thing, and I but I went to IBM A World of Bluegrass last year and I watched lots of bands and there's quite a mixed audience, there's men, there's women, but and then I went to see Sister Sadie, and there were just row upon row of like young girls looking at the stage, and you can see in their eyes they're looking and going, That looks like me. This is this is my world. I'm not like in somebody else's world full of old men. These people and it was just like it was really moving actually, just to see without anybody saying anything, just to see these girls' faces just sort of shining up at the stage.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a special thing. And you know this, whenever I'm talking about this, and I don't mean this in an apologetic way, I just like there's there's no part of this casting a negative light on the contributions of men or on the the role that men have played in this music. Like that's not the point of this at all, you know? Um it's just showing this and this also, this like here we're, you know, that that women's voices are in this and that that women love this music too and and love playing it and and have a have a place in it.

Matt 27:53

Well, and you you're putting out a kind of four-part mini documentary series with the record as well. And I watched the first part of it last night, and um and it it just feels like it's like you said it doesn't feel like it's uh there's a point being made, it just feels like a celebration of music and friendship, and it's such a such a fun watch. I'm looking forward to the the next bits. What was the the sort of thinking behind documenting at the same time?

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Um I think like you know, we're we're living in a time when the visual element is so important, and you kind of always want that to have the visual element, but this was like the time where it's like really worth investing in it because so much of it is uh like you said, like celebratory and and worth worth seeing, you know, our our camaraderie and and r mutual respect and collaboration and just seeing the way it all came together and and uh the role that we all play in bringing these songs to life. Um it seemed like there's there's a story there that is worth um also capturing. So um yeah, just felt like especially because every every session, every day was a different band. So it's like being able to, when you hear it, you know, you might not people who are really into this music are gonna hear that and be like, oh, that's that's Sierra playing Mandolin, or that's you know, that's Bronwyn's fiddle for sure, you know. But um not everybody's gonna gonna hear that necessarily to be able to see see their wonderful faces and yeah my little my little boy woke up and I'm in the in the outside, so we might uh be joined here by Hello little man. Hello, hi honey.

Matt 29:59

Hi seems inconceivable that my little boy was ever that small.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

I know I try to soak up every second that I can. You want to sit on my lap, honey, while we talk? Come here.

Matt 30:14

He's very cute. Um And the other thing I was gonna ask, last last time we talked about Queen of Time, you you talked really clearly about um there being a kind of an arc of an artist's work, and you talk really clearly about um Southland kind of feeding into Queen of Time and that whatever you did next would sort of carry that forward. And it like not necessarily musically, but it certainly feels like there's that's a it's a natural kind of next step in many ways. Do you see it that way?

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Yeah, definitely. You know, I I uh for years and years uh toured, played like hundreds of shows a year, um being the you know, the only girl in a in a all dude string band living basically living in a in a van with with a bunch of dudes touring around. And um, and I um also started touring with the Sweetwater Warblers and got to have this experience of being in an all-female band and just seeing how different and sort of comfortable it felt. And um, so when I decided to put a band together to tour Queen of Time, I've it felt right to put together an all-female band for it. And I toured that that record on the album cycle. Um, and out of the Queen of Time album cycle, I started touring as w as a trio uh with Emma and Willa. Um and so getting to play and tour and these all-female bands was sort of part of the the arch of of this music and and sort of honoring, you know, Queen of Time, you know, was a lot of it was honoring the legacy of my grandmother and and this radical life that she lived. Um and uh so it just feels like a really natural next step, you know, to honor these women's voices and and and keep on touring these these all women bands.

Matt 32:16

And when you get to play any of this live with the people who made the record, or will it will it be with your band mostly?

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Um it'll be with like the core is is my band, and then I'll have guests joining on on Mandolin and and Banjo um and fiddle sometimes too. Um and you know, the the idea is you know, the the shows I have lined up for this year, you know, I've just sort of transitioning between trio shows and bluegrass women shows. Um I've got Molly Johnson from a band called Wilder Flower playing banjo on a lot of them. Um and she's just um you know who you might know from the Peter Owen, Tony Rice uh record that so so many of us know and love. Um she's she's just a monster player and and such a beautiful, wonderful person. Um so it feels really cool. The the glorious thing about this record is I couldn't have possibly even gotten all of the all of the incredible women on the record. You know, I've I've hit up the people that first came to mind that I'm have a relationship with already. Um, and now I get to bring even more of them in as I play it. And um already, you know, the idea and that's already happening, like this last weekend we played Grand Targy Music Festival, and AJ Lee was there. She's somebody that was also on the record that I've got to play with a lot in the Winter Wonder Women Band and um love her singing and playing so much. And and AJ was also booked at the festival, so I got to rope her into my set and play some of these songs together. Um and that's the beautiful thing, is a lot of these, the women on the project uh are all of them pretty much, uh have their own bands or are in other touring bands, so we'll be crossing paths and be playing festivals together. So I'll get I'll have a band, but then I'll also get to pull people in um as we're playing around.

Matt 34:33

Yeah, fantastic. Well, it's I mean, I I'm really enjoying the record, it's lovely, and I can't wait to see the rest of the the little films that go with it as well. It's just so as I said before, it just felt so so much like a celebration and like you're just sort of sitting in watching some friends make music and have a great time. But it's also really lovely to hear from the people on the record like their feelings about some of these songs and their experiences and their connections with it all. And um, yeah, best of luck with all of it. It's you know, it's a joyful listen, and it's been a really fun conversation. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Thank you. Yeah, thanks for helping us get the word out about it. And and I was just listening to your interview with Allison Krause talking about Tony Rice, and it's cool. These these conversations that you have are really cool to have captured and available for everybody. So thanks for doing what you do too.