Repost: Brittany Haas on joining Punch Brothers

To celebrate Punch Brothers' new record, The Unsung Adventures of Punch Brothers, I'm reposting a fascinating conversation I had with Brittany Haas after she joined the band.

This is the first Punch album with Brittany in the line-up so I thought it would be fun to listen back and hear how she joined the band and what her first shows were like.

I'd interviewed Gabe Witcher a few days after he played his final shows with Punch Brothers at Telluride and, almost exactly a year later to the day, I spoke with Brittany to chat about joining the band as his replacement. Brittany had just played with Punch Brothers at Telluride, so there was a lovely symmetry to it.

At the start I mention the episode I recorded with Brittany and her sister Natalie when they released their duo record Haas. 

Transcript

Matt 0:27

My this is Matt, and you listen to Blue Recurse. Jamal on the podcast for anyone and everyone who loves BlueRassi! Hey everybody, welcome back. This episode is a repost of an episode I put out a couple of years ago. And the reason is there's a brand new Punch Brothers record out, it came out on Friday called The Unsung Adventures of Punch Brothers and I Love It. It's all instrumental, which is the first time they've done that. But more interestingly than that is the first record with Brittany Haas as a member of the band. They've done the Energy Curfew Music Hour stuff and they've done some shows, but this is the first record they put out with Brittany and the band. And I talked to Brittany after she joined the band. It was a really interesting period. Gabe decided to leave Punch Brothers, and I spoke to Gabe a couple of days after he'd done his final Telluride show with the band. And then they announced Britney was joining. And so when they'd done their first Telluride with Britney, I spoke to Britney about joining the band. And I thought I'd put that conversation back out just to mark this new record and this new chapter of Punch Brothers, and just because there's been a lot more people found the podcast since this one went out, and I think people will find it interesting, particularly in the context of the new record. So yeah, it's just a chat with me and Britney Haas about her joining Punch Brothers. I really enjoyed this first time around, it was really cool getting to listen back to it and just hear all this stuff again in the context of the album being out. So yeah, simple as that. Here is my conversation with Britney Haas. Brittany, welcome back to the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Thanks for having me again. It's great to be here.

Matt 2:18

So last time you were on, I think I interviewed you and Natalie, and by the time the episode came out, it had been announced that you joined Punch Brothers. I think I interviewed you just before that happened. So that is what we're going to talk about tonight, primarily. Brittany has and it's not, I mean, you've just done Telluride with the band. It wasn't the first shows you'd done, was it? It was kind of felt like a bit of a public unveiling almost.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Totally. Yeah, it was the first full-length shows that I'd done.

Matt 2:45

Because I interviewed Gabe about three days after his last Telluride show with the band this time last year, to talk about kind of his reasons for moving on and you know, kind of why. Um and so like we're pretty much exactly a year after I talked to him about going. I'm talking to you about arriving, which is really cool. Um and sort of how how much before that announcement did you kind of know what was going on? I I talked to Gabe a lot about his reasons for going and his sort of timeline and his thoughts, but I don't know how sort of long this was mooted for before you joined.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Um it was known for a while. I don't remember the exact timeline. It was um because it's always odd when you're keeping a secret. Um and there there had been a bit of chat about it before it really kind of finalized, um, because like you said, he was thinking about that and trying to kind of make a decision about what to do. Um and meanwhile, um there had been a couple situations. There was a time where Gabe had COVID, um and I ended up filling in. So that was like obviously before I knew I was gonna be joining the band, but it was an interesting sort of first experience with everything was completely crazy because Critter also was not there. So it was a it was a trio with you know, just very odd like situation, but it was a bit of a crash course in learning some of that music. So that was sort of my like preview um for what it might be like, and then and then you know, then it was announced, and then we didn't really do anything for quite a while, just with the way that the scheduling was, um, you know, no new album or touring on the books, and then we had this podcast that we did instead of really playing any shows. So I'd played like last summer after he did his final telluride, then we had the acoustic camp camp that Thely was running. Um, and that was like my first like proper gig with them, but it was for a very small audience of campers there. So it was in a way it was less pressure, but also more pressure because everybody who was there was kind of a super fan.

Matt 4:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Um anyway.

Matt 4:59

And then and then they did the energy curfew music hour stuff, which again is not like a typical punch gig. And it must be quite nice in a way to not kind of just be dropped into like just taking somebody else's. It's giving you the space to for it for it to feel the way you think, well then we'll talk about Terry Ride in a bit, but the way it was sort of unveiled was Punch Brothers 3.0, and it it feels like a like a new chapter, and maybe having a bit of time helped with that.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Definitely. And working on new music um too, you know, sort of redefining what the sound is with me in it. Um Although I like I would love to just sound like Gabe, because he's amazing. So that's been fun on the on the older stuff, learning some of his parts.

Matt 5:40

Well, and that must be really interesting doing that sort of drop-in couple of shows when he had COVID, because Punch Brothers must be one of the hardest bands to dep for. Like, you know, not many people have done it. So Brian Sutton sat in a bit in the early days for Critter when he was still sort of finishing up stuff with the string dusters. And but it's not kind of just turn up, play the tunes. It's you know, they're pretty complicated parts, aren't they? Some of them.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Mm-hmm. And at that point, I it was very much cramming, and I I did use some charts to remember what was happening.

Matt 6:13

And then so those energy curfew music hour, um, like for people who don't know, it's essentially a kind of live from here sort of format, isn't it? Um it's not just music, it's music and chat. And um, but those aren't out yet, so people don't know much about those. What can you tell us about that?

SPEAKER_02 6:29

They are coming out in the fall. That's the plan. They'll be out on Audible. There's eight hours of this variety music show that has some comedy, some skits, um, a lot of amazing musical guests that we play along with, um a new piece of music for each episode that we wrote. Um and yeah, I think people are gonna really like it.

Matt 6:53

It's funny because you sort of through social media you see these things happen. And some people obviously came to them as live shows and they saw them. Um and like now we're talking waiting to see, and it's it's sort of funny getting that sneak peek in advance of what's coming up.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Totally. Yeah, I know. It's it's always odd when you something happens, but nobody else gets to be there for it. And I think the idea was that it would have come out earlier, but you know, things things take as long as they take.

Matt 7:22

Yeah, and I'm really interested to hear them. And it sounds like um so there's a piece of new music for each one, and is that where some of the new materials come from that you've been playing? Kind of a show. Because there was quite a bit of new stuff at Telluride, wasn't there?

SPEAKER_02 7:34

There was, yeah, and all of that was stuff from the podcast. There was the new, like actually properly newly written pieces, um, some of which were instrumental, some songs, and then there are a couple sort of fiddle tune covers where we took a traditional piece and had our new way with it.

Matt 7:54

Yeah, and that's that that seems to be um like well, it's funny because it's there throughout Punch Brothers. There's there's like um, for want of a better phrase, odd time signatures. But you know, in in recent times, particularly with um like the reimagining of Church Street Blues, and you guys did uh what track was it? Um Waterbound on the weekend. And like I was trying to work out in my head what's going on there, if it's a bar of five and a bar of four, or what it is, because it's just this lovely little spiraling swirl of a thing that never quite sets you down anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Right, it's five. It's it's just yeah, and with with that you could kind of and I'm I might be wrong about this, but because I'm still definitely like learning how to play in a five. That's not something I'd really done much of previously, but um you can count it in a fast five. One, two, three, four, five, one, two, three, four, five, or you can count it in the halftime version of that.

Matt 8:49

Um every time I thought I got it, it slipped away from me. But yeah, and that's that's really interesting because I think um I don't know, there's something about hearing something really familiar that at the same time is not familiar. And that's that that constant thing in music of and structure does this sometimes and form does it, but this thing of presenting people with stuff they know and also making them work a bit at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Totally. And sometimes, I mean it depends on the listener and how how you decide to take it in. Because I think for me, anyways, with the older repertoire from Punch Brothers, I've like I've obviously been a fan because how can you not be like they're so important in this genre? Um, but I didn't necessarily listen um with a mind of trying to learn the music previous to being, you know, getting the gig. Um, so there's a lot of stuff where I didn't really know exactly how complicated it was until actually sitting down and being like, How many beats are there in that bar?

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

So that you can't always tell, I guess, is what I mean. Like sometimes it just like sails by and it makes sense melodically, so it you don't know what's going on in it, but that doesn't matter.

Matt 10:06

It's a funny one, isn't it? Um, with music, like there is some very complicated stuff that is very complicated, but it's some very complicated stuff that your ear totally understands, even if you couldn't write it down or clap it, or like my little boy's learning to play drums at the moment, and he understands syncopation. Like I'm sure half of what he naturally plays, if you write it out for him, he'd have to stop and count it and think and get really confused, but he just feels it. And so if a line is a good line, it just takes you where you need to get to, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Matt 10:33

I love that approach to kind of unusual time signatures because I think so much there there is music that is in five or seven or whatever that's just sort of like it's a three and a four, or it's a two and a three, and it never changes and it's there, and it's but I like stuff that drags you around with it and um and takes you there. So with a lot of this music that existed already, what's how's that been in terms of learning somebody else's parts? Because you're you know, obviously have huge facility on all kind of counts when it comes to playing the fiddle, but you're a monster improviser, and is learning somebody else's part note for note a different sort of challenge? Because obviously a lot of Hawk Tail is very composed, isn't it? It's not just you know, that's it's very familiar ground there in terms of that, I'd imagine.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Totally, yeah, yeah, yeah. And sometimes it's not totally clear like what is a specific part and what is just something that he thought of that sounds so perfect in that moment that it sounds like it was written, but it may have just been something that he came up with in the studio or you know, developed over time. Um so there's been a bit of guesswork sometimes of deciding like when I do need to do something specific. Uh and at other times it's very obvious, like this is the fiddle solo. So like do what you want with it. But like he there's some gestures that he does that are now so kind of firmly in my mind and my body from like listening over and over to it that it's like I'll just probably keep some of that because it's really great, like the way a solo begins or something like that. Um and yeah, we've when because we've basically played. Yeah, I don't think there's actually been anything where I had to like know it and perform it without having at least one rehearsal where we played through it, and that there have been moments where they're like, oh, like you do need to play that part, or you don't like that's you could be looser with that bit.

Matt 12:28

So I'm getting directions. Didn't just chuck you in with the blind leaving the blind in the first gig then.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Luckily not.

Matt 12:35

I would imagine they probably have to learn that again. A lot of notes in there.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah, I think so.

Matt 12:39

But I did see that um you did uh one of the warm-up gigs in Kansas, you did familiarity, which is a pretty long kind of um like complex is I mean it is complex, but it's also there's a lot of dynamic within that, and it takes you on a fairly substantial journey as you do it, and it's you know, it's the kind of thing that I guess you need to have in your ears and under your fingers, and also enough to be able to let go of all that on stage and let it breathe. Because it's a it's a magical moment in the set when Punch Brothers play that song.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Totally, yeah. It's epic, it's it's long, it's multifaceted. Um and yeah, just each bit, you know, it requires a different um type of focus, I think. So that was I I tried, like I definitely previously in life have been a bit of a procrastinator, but I knew that I couldn't really do that on this gig because there was just such a mound of music to learn. So I I tried to really, you know, be systematic about it. And I worked the fast part in the middle, that bit, that like I started working on that earlier and just kind of like drilled it because that's like you just you have to play those notes and you have to play them really fast. Um and you know, there's shapes that are moving around, but it's not completely logical. Um so I kind of like got that bit down, and then there was there's all the singing parts, which Critter and I had to flip sometimes because Gabe sings lower. Um so that's like its own thing. And then the the the intro, like that that's actually been the the hardest part for me is like getting those bowed um those bits before it goes into the rump bum bump bump bum bum bump part. Um just the double stops and the the very specific timing of it, where it's like everybody's starting and ending their notes at a slightly different time. Um yeah, so it's been a real challenge for me, and I'm like kind of relearning how to learn and memorize music.

Matt 15:50

Yeah, I'm gonna imagine it's uh it's an enormous challenge. And so are you are you singing, are you essentially singing where Gabe would have sung, if not what Gabe would have sung? Or is Noam and Paul singing more as well?

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Um sometimes, but mostly I'm singing where Gabe would have sung, and if I can get the notes, I keep the notes, and if I can't, then Critter and I flip.

Matt 16:14

Because I remember thinking when I first um heard that you joining the band, thinking, well, this is fascinating because this is, you know, it can only go in a different direction, and that's gonna be really cool. And then my first thought after that was what about the vocals? Because they've got such a the three of them together have such a sound. And it's one of the things I'm most looking forward to hearing when I see you guys in Flesh again. Um it's just how that changes, because it's all, you know, it's it's such a it may feel like a tiny part of it compared to all the instrumental work, but it's such a key part of the punch sound, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Yeah, absolutely. And that's that's um a big deal to me, I guess, because it's not something I've really spent a ton of time on. Like I've sung a little harmony here and there, but this is yeah, like you said, a little more fundamental to the overall sound. And Gabe like is such a great singer and really had a great way of sort of blending going between playing and singing and also doing some things at the same time that are challenging if if you haven't really done that before. So it's a it's a big um area for improvement for me.

Matt 17:24

And if they um if they do a few of the uh phosphorescent blues tracks live, are you gonna play the drums as well like I did then?

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Nobody's asked me to yet. I'm I'm hoping it stays that way. Maybe we can get your son to to sit in.

Matt 17:38

I'll send him over, he'll syncopate all over it for you. Oh, that's cool. Um and you've obviously played with all those. Obviously, you played with Paul a lot through Hawktail, but on various other projects. I was listening to the um Caitlin Canty last record that you and Paul and Sarah Juras play on, and Critt is on it a bit, and Noam's on it a tiny bit as well. And I interviewed her about that and I was asking about um kind of playing with you guys. And the phrase she used was she said, Paul and Britt, the way they play feels like a two-headed monster to me. And she meant it very much as a compliment.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

Yeah.

Matt 18:12

That's I guess it's it's easy to easier to slot into a band when you've made music with most, if not all, of the people in it many times before.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

Definitely. Yeah, but in all the ways, you know, in terms of like feeling comfortable socially as well. Um and knowing how to read like the signals. I think that's that's a big part of like band dynamics for me, is like especially when you're the new person and there's a lot happening, like being able to watch and try try to take those cues as something to help you get through it and you know know what's going on and feel feel the up and up and down of the energy. Um so that is really helpful when you know somebody and uh kind of can take the hints that they're giving you.

Matt 19:02

It's funny, isn't it? When you've played music with people for a long time, I think sometimes you don't even notice what language you've got. I mean, I was in a a a band with two guys for the best part of 20 years. There was about four different bands, but we and there was four of us sitting at the end that overlapped on these bands. And I think other people come in and they they're looking at you, going, What? You nobody said anything there, but you all just did something. And you're going, oh no, no, we said, and then no, you didn't. You just sort one of you looked at it, and I don't I don't know who looked at who, and it's like, but you can it's so easy to just develop shorthand that other people don't see, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 19:33

Totally. Yeah. And sometimes you really need that because sonically, like when you're on stage and you can actually, I mean, like doing the one mic setup is I mean, I have done that before a good bit with Tony Trishka and Michael Daves. Um, but it's it feels a little different in this setting. We also do have or have been using clip-on mics to support that, so it's not as crucial to get exactly up on the mic in terms of what the audience hears, but in terms of what what we're hearing of each other, it's really tricky because whoever you're next to you can hear, but you might not be hearing the other ones that are a little further away. So there's a lot of like looking and like trying to see when the hand is hitting the string or something like that. Um so yeah, it definitely helps to know the people as well as you can and um yeah, just pay attention to every little thing that they're doing. And they've got it so dialed in, obviously, after 18 years of being a band. Like there's a lot of really specific things about how they raise stuff together. It's amazing.

Matt 20:39

It's interesting that is and so there's the gigs you've done so far being single mic with clip-ons.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Mm-hmm.

Matt 20:46

Because I talked, I was talking to Dave Cinco for the podcast recently, and he said he thinks Punch Brothers are one of the one of, if not the best band in the world, uh doing the coordinated single mic dance and knowing how to mix themselves in front of a mic. He said Punch Brothers and maybe Del Macquarie band are the two that can really do that. Because it's a it's a whole other element to the performance, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Totally. And at this point, like again, with knowing people in like body language and stuff, that's a whole other thing of knowing like which way is there are they gonna move? Like, how am I gonna like get around and make sure I don't poke anybody in the eye with my bow or you know, get bonked with the instrument swinging around.

Matt 21:27

And how was how was Telluride for you? Because obviously you've done acoustic camp, you've done the NAG COVID stuff, but this like seeing it from the outside, it felt like this was a bit of a public unveiling and celebration of you as part of the band.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Totally. Yeah, it felt it was like very moving and like kind of felt like triumphant and like very sweet because the that band is so loved there. Um, and I felt very welcomed by the audience, which was amazing. Um and we worked really hard. Like we, I think because I'm new and because we're playing a bunch of new music, we'd done two warm-up shows in Kansas and we rehearsed a lot. Like they're the rehearsingest band that I know. So we like we'd spent a lot of time like really knowing what was gonna happen. And I feel like we we we did it. We did what we came to do, and it went well, which which felt great. And then we had the opera house gig on Sunday night, and that was a lot looser because that had a lot less rehearsal time, and there was more like adventurous set list decisions about like segues and stuff like that.

Matt 22:32

Well, I was looking because I lit I heard the um the town park set because it's all sort of on um Koto, it's all broadcast on Koto. I managed to hear that, but obviously um the Nightgrass set wasn't on there, or I didn't find it, and I haven't seen a set list, so I'm really curious to know sort of what went in that.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Um, some of the same. Some some of the new stuff, a lot of old stuff. Um there was one new piece that we didn't get to on the main stage that we played there. Um yeah, sort of a smattering from all the records, basically. We played Familiarity again. Um we played Flippin', you know, some things that like were easier for me to jump in on because there are like tunes that I already knew. Um, and there was some more comedy bits. And uh yeah, that's that's what I remember. It was it was kind of a whirlwind.

Matt 23:28

I can imagine. And so with those, I was interesting with those, the sort of the comedy sketches that clearly are born out. Out of the um Live From Here Energy Curfew kind of format. Is that like, are they in the set now because of the energy curfew thing? Or is that like is Punch Brothers 3.0 moving more in that direction, or is do you not know yet?

SPEAKER_02 23:49

I don't know yet. I don't know. Yeah, I'm I enjoy it. Um and we have them now because they've been created for the podcast show. Um so it's yeah, it's a fun thing to get to include there. And I'm not sure how much of that will stay.

Matt 24:06

It's fun, it's fun sort of it's a slightly weird situation to be able to witness some of this from several thousand miles away and sort of feel like I've heard bits of this and I've sort of was, you know, able to be there for a bit of it and and yet not. And it's it's a strange way of dropping in on it all. Um and I was totally flawed to hear you do a bit of Benjamin Britain's Peter Grimes in the midst of all of it, which is just my favourite opera of all time. I love it, it just um it's one of the most special things. And to do the bit that you did on a festival stage like in front of a bunch of people who probably don't know that, it's like it's a very bold move. Because it's a really quiet, delicate little piece of music and quite sort of angular and like almost fragile, and it could easily just sort of drift off on the wind somewhere. Um but it's a beautiful piece of music.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Yeah, I I really like that one. It was really fun learning that.

Matt 25:07

I'm looking forward to you doing the full opera in time.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

Maybe we shall see.

Matt 25:14

Um and like a kind of more technical question, I guess, but I was just curious that following somebody in a band who plays a four-string fiddle as somebody who plays a five-string fiddle. Like does the five does the fifth string feature much? Is it like do you have to or have you do you even think about that? Do you just play?

SPEAKER_02 25:35

And thus far, yes. I mean, maybe in the new new writing there will be more room for that. I mean, actually in the Peter Grams, there was a low F. So that was useful for that note, that one note. Um I'm trying to think if I yeah, if there's much else where it's gotten utilized yet. I would say probably not. I mean, I uh usually in my regular playing of just whatever other music, I use it a lot more when I'm kind of comping or doing a supportive part, um, pads, that kind of thing. So and I think because of where I'm at with this the punch music, I'm not like actually one thing that's really cool about them as a band is that there are a lot of moments where everybody is not playing, you know. Whereas like in a lot of my other situations, and Hawktail, you know, it's obviously a smaller band, so there's more time when everybody's in doing something, and that's there's just less need for that in Punch because every there's more people and more intricate parts and roles as backup parts. So I'm not sure how much I will be like chopping on the C-string, but but you know, it's there if it's called for at some point.

Matt 26:58

Well, I guess it's it's a useful bit of range as well, because Paul tends to use the whole instrument. Um having that ability to like not necessarily overlap, but me in the middle somewhere is probably quite handy.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Totally.

Matt 27:13

And does it has it felt so far like being Brittany Hass in Punch Brothers is any different than in Hulk Tail or other situations? Is it sort of other things it's required of you or that have just felt different and surprised you or that's a cool question.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Um I think it's a bit of both. Like I I feel true to myself and like showcased as myself on some stuff, and I also feel like there's room for me to grow into the role of me in that band, you know, which has a little bit of like what Gabe was, you know, and me like being like, I want to carry on because I really love what he added to that band, and it was really special and amazing. And I already feel like I've learned a lot just from learning learning his parts on those songs. Um so I want to keep some of that, and um obviously I want to be myself, and it feels like there's room for all of that, and I'm and I think also the nature of some of the soloing that stretches me as well. So I I feel like it's like in the same direction that I would have wanted to have gone, but it's like helping me go further that way.

Matt 28:29

Yeah, and it well, it feels like um kind of growth is an important part of that band, an important part of um the individuals in that band, you know. It feels as an outsider to be a bunch of people who are looking to see what comes next.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

Totally. And they're like really not afraid to work really hard towards that, which is really cool because I think sometimes not to say that anybody else is lazy or something, but just like especially having that kind of culture together with your friends of like, okay, like this is gonna be really hard, but we're gonna figure it out together. Like, that's that's inspiring and motivating to do that with people.

Matt 29:14

Well, and I I I mentioned this to Gabe and to Krita when I interviewed them before, but when Punch Brothers first became a band, it felt like there was a real intent to become a band, and they all gave each other nicknames, and they all kind of it felt like we are forming a gang. And I got a little sense of that again at the weekend. You know, Chris posted a video on um Instagram about Punch Brothers 3.0, and there was just kind of it, it was such a clear intent of this is the next stage, rather than his Punch Brothers with somebody different playing the food. This is like and there's something really nice about that, about that sense of okay, that was all cool. This is what's next. And you don't lose any of what was cool about what came before, but this it just feels exciting. Do you know what I mean? And I think that's as a fan, that's a really cool sense to get from it.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

Totally. And it's yeah, it's very sweet for me, too, you know, to feel very much a part of it already.

Matt 30:07

I love that Noah referred to it as the Brittany Husband featuring Chris Thieley.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Yeah, that was a pretty pretty cute way of addressing the whole thing because everybody's been like, are you gonna change the band name? Like, it's gotta be siblings or like and sister.

Matt 30:23

But like this is it, it's not actually the Punch Brothers, is it? It's just Punch Brothers.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Right. Yeah.

Matt 30:29

So like it's it's kind of a bit more vague than that.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

Totally, totally.

Matt 30:35

And so what's what's the plan next? So you've obviously got some new music and I haven't seen any details of more shows coming up this year. So I think you've got one more gig in California in August that I've spotted.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Yeah.

Matt 30:47

Um is there other plans to record and tour or is that all still a bit up in the air?

SPEAKER_02 30:52

There are plans, but they're vague. They're they're you know they're distant enough, I think, that they don't have to be completely figured out yet. There's um and I'm also not sure what I'm supposed to say.

Matt 31:05

This would be another one of those situations where I chat to you and two weeks later the truth comes out and I'll have to get you back on the next year.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

I mean, I feel like that's better than me like saying it and then being like, oh, I really wasn't supposed to tell that.

Matt 31:17

Well, and I'm still pretending that I'm asking on behalf of my listeners, but essentially what I'm saying is when are you coming back to London? That's my question.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Oh gosh. I don't know when were they there last? Was it within Michael?

Matt 31:30

Yeah, it was on the All Assure tour, so I think it was 2018.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

So that means it's like pretty overdue, I guess. But probably not until the record's out, I suppose.

Matt 31:40

So No, it probably doesn't make sense before then.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

And that's probably you know, two years away? That's a guess. That's a guess.

Matt 31:49

No, no, I'm gonna I'm gonna put it, I'm gonna put that out there now as a fact. You heard it here first, folks. Two years today. Cool. Well, I'll look forward to hearing whatever it is. But in the meantime, you also, by the time this comes out, will have a new duet record out, won't you? You've got a new album coming out.

SPEAKER_02 32:07

Yes, yes. On Friday, actually in two days, the 28th. And then there's a bunch more music coming down the line for Hocktail as well.

Matt 32:16

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Which I don't think any of that is quite announced at the moment, but it will be shortly.

Matt 32:22

So tell us about the record that's coming out on Friday.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Yeah, it's um it's a it's the second album that I've made with this amazing Swedish fiddle player, Lena Jonsen. And the first one was from 2015, so it's been a while. We kind of both went our separate ways. And actually, she has a band called the Lena Jonsen Trio that's the same instrumentation as Hocktail trio version. Um, and she writes really amazing tunes, so she's been busy doing that, and I've been busy doing other stuff, and then we just kind of um missed hanging out and playing music together. So she came to visit in Nashville a year ago, and we spent a week writing tunes, and then we made a record very informally. We just set up microphones in Paul's house, actually, um, pedidal headquarters. Um and we made this little record, and then we've done some gigs lately, and it's a bunch of original music. It's fun, it's fun stuff. Um sh I love her playing, and she's really easy to work with because she's just very open and like I've never had that kind of ease of co-writing tunes with anybody else, where we're just like, that's kind of cool. Okay, like um, so yeah, it was just a lot of fun, and I think it's I think it's cool music, and um twin twin fiddles is just a very like satisfying, easy collaboration.

Matt 33:50

Yeah, you say you did some gigs. You were here in London and I missed you. I was away somewhere, I can't think where now, but yeah. And is there is there more planned for that? Are you gonna be able to play more shows together, do you think?

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Nothing. I mean, right now it's just a little tricky to find time for all the various things. Um so we're gonna do three gigs in California, actually, with my sister as well. Oh cool trio. Um, but that's that's all that's on the books at the moment.

Matt 34:16

Just that and your two other bands.

unknown 34:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Not much.

Matt 34:21

That's really cool. Well, I'm really excited to hear sort of what comes next. Um, hear some new music, hear what direction Punch Brothers 3.0 goes in. I'm also really excited to hear some new Hawktales stuff when that's out as well. Thanks. You are now in two of my favourite bands.

SPEAKER_02 34:37

Aww.

Matt 34:39

That's very sweet. Appreciate it. Cool. It's really nice to talk to you again.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

You too, Matt. Thanks for having me.