Jerry Douglas - Celebrating Boone Creek

My guest this week is Jerry Douglas and we're celebrating the reissue of Boone Creek's first album.

Boone Creek has a fascinating story behind it, which we covered in last week's interview with Scott Billington, who put together the reissue for Craft Recordings.

In this episode I chat with Jerry about the place Boone Creek had in his career, his memories of the original sessions and what the band were trying to achieve, what it was like to hear the lost tracks for the first time in 50 years and how playing in Boone Creek helped shape the musician he is today.

As always, Jerry was warm, funny, generous and full of fascinating insights. It's always a treat when I get to chat with him.

You can buy Boone Creek from Craft Recordings on vinyl, CD or digital download

Follow Craft on Instagram or Facebook to keep up to date with new reissues of classic roots music.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:27

It was a fun band to be in, you know. We were growing up, we were learning how to play our instruments. I can hear that that, you know, we're all in our infancy as as players at that point. And to be able to go back and redo that part, I would love to do that. But that's what I sounded like then. That's why I sound hell I sound heaven. It was a learning experience.

Matt 0:53

My sister's Matt, and you listen to Bluecracks Jam along the podcast for anyone and everyone who loves bluegrass. Hey everybody, welcome back to Bootcraft's Jamalon. My guest on the podcast this week is the one and only Jerry Douglas. Jerry's been on the podcast before, but he's back to talk about a particular project. Um, a band he was in with rookie skags 50 years ago. It is, of course, Boon Creek. Now, the first Boon Creek record has recently been reissued by Kraft Recordings with some extra tracks, and these are kind of not just outtakes and bits and pieces, these are four tracks that were recorded for the original sessions and then disappeared. They never got a commercial release, they were never fully finished. Um, and there's a fascinating story behind all of this: how Ken Irwin from Randa Records wanted to find these and reissue them as part of the record. You know, it never made it to CD, it never made it to the streaming services. So there's a whole fascinating story about this. And I delved into that a little bit with Scott Billington last week. Uh Scott was a longtime RANDA employee and also worked on this project with Kraft Recording, so that was fascinating. Go and check that out if you miss it. I'll stick a link in the show notes. Um, but I also wanted to talk to Jerry about Boone Creek, and this happened pretty quickly after him and Ricky left JD Crow, the New South. Um, sits at a really interesting point in string band music in general, but also in their careers, they're still pretty young. There's a lot going on, there's a lot of movement in the bluegrass world, and just to hear what they were thinking at the time and what he thinks looking back, and how it was to hear some of these tracks for the first time in 50 years, or for the first time ever with the extra track, you know. Um, and just so all of that is just, you know, it's really interesting to me. And Jerry, as always, is a warm, generous, funny, you know, uh thoroughly interesting interview guest. So it was just a delight to get to talk to him and just sort of look at this record, you know, uh both from the context context of what they were doing at the time and like looking back at it now as well. Um, and I really, really enjoyed this conversation. Um, as I said, there's a link in the show notes to the Scott Billington episode, check that out. I'll also stick a link in so you can go and find the Boom Creek record. It's on vinyl, it's on CD and a digital download from Craft Recordings. Um other than that, all usable stuff applies, bluegrass jamalong.com for chord sheets, full list of episodes, all the backing tracks, all the jam-along tracks, all of that stuff. Um, and if you enjoy this episode or any episode, most useful thing you can do for me is to you know recommend it to a friend. Pass it on to somebody who you think might enjoy it. But that is enough of me talking. Let's crack on and have a listen to Jerry Douglas talking about the reissue of Boom Creek. Jerry Douglas, welcome back to Bluegrass Jamalong. It is great to see you again.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Thank you. Thank you, Matt. Uh, it's great to be back here and to talk to you about this particular subject.

Matt 4:02

Yeah, I'm looking forward to this conversation. It's going to be an interesting one. It's uh fascinating. There's a lot of records get a reissue, and there's a lot of records that get a reissue with a bit of extra material. But this record is a particular kind of you know, it didn't get a reissue in any form for years, and then all of a sudden there it is with some new tracks. It's a fascinating story.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

But the the the new tracks weren't uh, you know, it wasn't like, okay, here we have these new tracks that uh we had to chase these things down. It was uh it was the situation where the the engineer took the tapes and left in 1977. So we hadn't heard any of this music since then.

Matt 4:48

And that must have been extraordinary, because it's just the process of making that record in itself, kind of you guys went into the studio and made a record, and from my understanding, Rounder kind of said, Yeah, but it's a bit out there. Can we have something a bit more traditional to go with it? So there was a second session after that, wasn't there?

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Yeah, the the second session was the one that we really uh cut the cut the bluegrass record. The first session we were mixed up a little bit and and uh we we knew what we wanted to do. We knew what kind of music we wanted to play, but it I think we we had gone past the mark of what uh Rounder wanted to hear from Boon Creek. And so we we we tamed some things down and and recut some things, but we continued to record even after that, and uh it was it was a little confusing on who was paying at that point, so but we kept going and then at the end, I guess when the the engineer got nervous that he wasn't gonna get paid, he absconded with the tapes, and uh they were found in a in a in a garage, you know, years later, uh thanks to the tenacity of Ken Irwin, you know, in tracking these things down.

Matt 6:07

And so presumably you hadn't heard any of this for like nearly fifty years.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

We d we would have never heard of any of this stuff uh again. And it's and it is very it it does date itself uh by the music that we were playing and the way the harmonies are stacked and all the kinds of things like that. But it's it's also uh to me historical uh in a lot of ways into what Ricky went ahead with when he got to his country career and what I learned you know and gleaned from all of that time in the studio there with Boon Creek uh of how to do things. We were we were really pushing the envelope. We had we had other record companies interested in us, which created some pretty funny stories later on. But uh yeah, we had we we we continued to cut and we had Carl Himmel playing drums who ended up with Neil Young for many years. Uh Joel D. Riguerio that was uh Charlie Daniels piano player was playing on this and and a saxophone guy, I can't remember his name, but uh we we went all out in you know in the vocal department and uh everything. We spent a lot of time in there and and really worked hard on these things. Vince Gill was even in the band at that point, and there were some things that Vince sang lead on that were totally destroyed that we can't get back. Oh wow. So there was a lot that uh there was a huge loss there as well. I mean, there were more the more songs, but we'll never hear them. Uh so it was it was amazing for them to come up and go, hey, we have four new songs you guys cut in 1977. You want to hear them? Yes, I want to hear this. And it was uh it was great to hear it again and and to actually revisit what we played like then. You know, we were kids. We were kids. This was the 70s, you know, this was fifty years ago, and uh this is what we sounded like then and what became what we became later.

Matt 8:25

Well, Nana, you said this interesting historically, and it is in so many ways. Like that period in the middle of the 70s was a really fascinating time for string band music anyway, as people were sort of pushing it in different directions. You kind of had you guys, Newgrass Revival are coming through, there's you know, seldom seen, there's lots of interesting things going on. But also at that point, kind of it sort of feels like a bit of a springboard for both you and Ricky, and potentially for the whole band. It's just like that moment, knowing now, listening to it as I do, knowing what came since, is a fascinating little point in time.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

It was an educational period for us. Uh we had, you know, the studio was like a a treasure chest, you know, you just jump into it and start plugging things in, you know, it to and and so it was a it was like a laboratory for us, and Ricky and I were really hip to gear, old gear. And at that time it wasn't old, it was brand new, but now it's old. But you know, LA2A compressors and you know, all all of these uh great old NEA consoles and and uh it was just a real learning experience, but uh I think we learned a lot and got and sort of got our our uh our broader picture of of what the music world for us was going to be like. We got a good start on it right there in the studio with Bone Creek.

Matt 11:06

Yeah, and it's a very kind of wide palette of colours on that record. Like, you know, particularly thinking about what it would have sounded like without the more bluegrass stuff in there. There's you know, like there's a real West Coast vibe to some of it. There's like elements of it almost like Loving Spoonful, there's you know, like sort of all these all these influences and flavors going in.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

It was the 70s, you know, there were a lot of major sevenths, and uh, you know, these days there's a fifty thousand dollar fine on a major seventh, you know, so you can't play it now. But but back then it was all the rage, and we ended a lot of songs, you know, just they never ended on the chord that the major chord of the tune, you would always drift off into some, you know, dreamy, uh dreamy land. Uh and the vocals were set up that way, and it was like it was like I can't describe the mamas and the papas. The BGs were really popular at that time. You know, the the music reflects the time. The music that we played reflects the time that we were in, the period we were in. And we were trying to be we were trying to be uh commercial, you know, be a bluegrass band, but be commercial. Uh take it somewhere that maybe it hadn't visited before.

Matt 12:25

Yeah, and coming out of kind of what you and Ricky had come out of with sort of J.D. Crow and something that was both old and new at the same time, if that makes sense. That kind of 004 records got heaps of tradition, but also a kind of a a different kind of sound as well. And so was that a kind of conscious thing then for you guys to start something new that would just expand things much more than that?

SPEAKER_01 12:49

I think it was. Yeah, we were we were we were trying to push, like I say, we were trying to push the envelope and see where these instruments what these instruments could do. And uh and not just the instruments, but the way we would treat our vocals, you know, without even thinking of it that way. I'm putting it in the terms that I would use now, you know. Back then I would have probably said it in a totally different way, trying to figure it out, uh, these different vocal stacks and different parts in the in the vocal stack. And uh we started out by using Cheryl White to sing higher parts with us, uh forgetting that her sister Sharon sang higher than her. And so finally Sharon started coming in too. And so we had finally this choir going on all the time that we had access to. So, you know, we would all stick around and hear parts, you know, let's okay, let's put that part on, let's put that part on. You know, that'll that'll change it from the ordinary. We were trying to be different we were trying to be different. Uh and uh we really did. I think we went a really a little past different. And uh the next record that we did was uh even on a different label, but it was more of a bluegrass record. Uh by then we had figured out that what we were trying to achieve with the rounder record, we were we were just too far ahead of it. We couldn't pull it off yet. You know, we couldn't afford to take a drummer and a you know, a piano player and all these other things out on the road with us. We had to make a living. So we reverted back to more of a bluegrass setting at later on. But this record was our our big experiment and early on in our career, so it's kind of it's interesting to see uh to hear it and to kind of go, oh, okay, I remember hearing this sound on you know, on one of Ricky's records, or Jerry did this kind of instrumental treatment on one of his records, you know. It shows up later. But uh we were just trying to source it at the time, just trying to come up with something different that would uh bring in a broader audience for bluegrass music and for us in particular. But it was it was gonna be too expensive for us to take it out, so we had to revert back to the bluegrass thing, which we were very capable of me and loved. You know, we didn't we didn't ever want to leave the bluegrass part of it behind. We wanted that was gonna be our thread and then d attach all this other stuff to it. And uh we we we we did it. We did we did it. We added the kitchen sink a few times. You definitely made made use of the tracks available to you on the tape, didn't you? Yeah, and and Sunday's the guy that was the engineer was a brilliant engineer and turned us on to a lot of tricks and and uh had we were just a big old family in there in the studio and we were just recording away, just not paying attention to the whatn't we weren't looking at a clock, you know. We were in there at all hours of the day. If you had an idea, you'd go back in there at three o'clock in the morning and put it down.

Matt 16:19

Was that a new experience for you? 'Cause a lot of particularly bluegrass records at that point, you sort of you have your songs, you go in and you cut them pretty quickly, pretty live. Like had you had the chance to spend that kind of time in the studio before?

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Never. Never. Uh uh usually uh you had you had rehearsals before you went in the studio as a bluegrass band, you didn't have a very big budget. And you could great if you could get a good studio and a great engineer and everything that you needed to just you know just put just put this stuff down on tape and you know, mix it and put it out. Um we we had all this we had all this time, we had a bigger budget and we had all this time and we just started into it, just kept finding tangents, you know. And uh we we followed, we went down the rabbit hole pretty far a few times. But it was great to have that much time in the studio and to be that relaxed and to be able to work out these different parts and you know A B and try and fail, you know. It was it was fun to have that much time and we it no, we had never had that much time and to to mess around with, you know, and and really flesh out things before.

Matt 17:41

And do you remember do you remember like how long you spent recording in total? I mean it sounds like it was carried on for a while after it was supposed to have started.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

I think we did it in two sections. Uh part of it was in 1976. And then there were even there were even dates on the tracks that were in 75, which is reas you you know, pretty close after Ricky and I left J.D. Crow in September. Uh I think there was a November session of Boon Creek. As with Terry Balcom and and Wes Golding and and uh our bass player uh oh he's in the credits of uh but uh we didn't really have a bass player when we went in. He was he was a telly he was uh uh uh a hot a hot guitar player in Lexington who played uh he he played a Les Paul, he was a great guitar player, played some steel, he played pedal steel on the record. If you hear pedal steel, it's f Freddie Wooten, that was his name. And uh yeah, it was it was uh it was the beginnings of Boon Creek because Big Boon Creek became a completely different sounding band after that after this record. But this was our shot. We were taking a big shot for right out of the right out of the shoot. And Rounder was with us, you know, with us the whole way, and uh they were they were great. Uh and uh then we got I remember uh somebody coming in from New York who wanted to sign us up to a big old publishing uh deal and showed us these numbers that scared us all to death and we all ran back to Lexington for a while and reconnoitered and uh felt like, okay, I think we're finished recording. I think we need to leave this situation. So that's when we stopped going and uh and the records the studio closed, the records disappeared, the the tapes disappeared, and you know, forty some years later they're found and they're all corroded, you know, a lot of mold and there was a lot of technology that went into bringing back these four songs that nobody's heard but in fifty years. And uh you know, baking tape, demolding tape, yeah, all of the things, you know, that you can do to try to bring something back, they did and were successful with those four tracks. And to me, that's amazing in itself. They could do anything with them. We just we had given up on it long ago, figured it's just gone. I have a cassette tape that may have some of the stuff on it, but you know, even finding a cassette machine that works at this point in time is a hard is a hard job. And but I I have a tape that I need to I need to go through it and see. I uh I've I found some Vince warbling on there, but uh the tape was pulling very slow and sounded strange. I'm not sure the tape's gonna s survive, but uh Yeah. Yeah, I I really wish the the things with Vince had turned out and to just to see, you know what we'd even do with it, you know, because they were really advanced. I mean, and the next time I saw him, he was singing uh, you know, a song about on on on top on solid gold on TV. You know, Vince has got his first beard he ever grew, and he's singing uh I forget what the name of the song was, but it was a huge pop hit. And uh so Vince made the right move at the time.

Matt 21:46

Well, I mean it didn't didn't turn out too badly for any of you in the end, did it?

SPEAKER_01 21:50

No, it didn't. No, it was a it was it was a great, like I say, it was just such an education. And that seems to be what we were more into than uh delivering what we had originally said we'd deliver. But we did deliver that record and it and it went well uh for the record. But the I I'm happy that it's coming back out after all of these years with these extra cuts that you know, long lost brothers who uh they haven't seen each other in you know 49 years, and here they here they go, they're gonna show up on the same record. When was the first you heard that they'd been found? Ken Irwin told me he had found them. And I was I was just like, oh man, what kind of shape are they in? Because I know that you have to be really careful with your multi-track tape, you have to keep it climatized, and these things had not been they were on a garage shelf, you know, in a unclimatized uh just a building. And all kinds of things can happen to that tape because it's a petroleum it's a petroleum-based product, and uh the oxide sticks to the tape, and if the tape gets warm or too hot or too cold, there's no magnetic ability anymore, and it doesn't stick to the tape anymore, and it falls off and it that's your music falling off into the dust, you know. You can't get that back. So you have to be really careful how you do this. So I I I'm just amazed at the that they could they could do it.

Matt 23:29

And it sounds great, you know. I've been listening to it, just the those those full tracks. It all sound Sounds so kind of vibrant and clear and you know it's astonishing to think they've just been sat around fifty years gathering dust and mold and and there they are.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

There they are, and I was surprised at the sound, you know, it's remastered at the surpr at the sound of the record itself and the songs that we did on that record and the way we did them, you know, with full band and all that all that stuff. It was uh it was the only time they sounded that way, probably ever. We would we would try, we would take a drummer out with us once in a while. We never took piano or anything like that, but but we did would take drums once in a while and try to recreate the feel that we've had in the studio. But we never did quite get back to it. Uh and it's a shame. I I would have liked to have fleshed that out and really seen where that could have gone. Especially at that time, you know. Now it probably would it might not fly. But back then, you know, we had a lot of important people looking at us, you know, like at the same time that they were signed, people were signing Kansas and groups like that, you know.

Matt 24:43

Uh big hair bands. There's a definite sort of what if moment about that record. So I'm listening. It's you know, it's it's funny because I can only listen back to it with the context of listening to it now. But um, you know, there's that just the way you talk about it, and the way Scott Billington talks about it when I talked to him, there's a definite sense of like a wonder what would have happened if that had sort of stuck and you'd been able to take a band out like that, and that had come off and that band had taken off in that way.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Yeah, it would have been a bigger production and and you know, there would have been tour tours lined up with other major acts and things like that if we could have taken if we could have taken that to the to the market. But we didn't we never had a chance to. It's great to hear it now because it's a it's a bluegrass band, like you know, if you if you'd never heard if you had never heard the original record to sit down and listen to this one, it's a pr it's a totally new sound. You know, you don't hear that now. And there may be a reason why. But I enjoyed it. I I enjoyed listening to it back when we started working on it again and the new tracks showed up. I it was it was n uh uh like visiting an old friend, you know, was nice.

Matt 26:08

And it's great to have it there, because for a lot of people, unless you bought a copy on vinyl in the 70s, like he never made it to CD, it's not been on the streamers. And Scott sort of said that Ken was reluctant to do it and till he convinced himself he wasn't going to find these tracks, but he was on a quest.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

He was really on a quest. He he there's a another whole complete story of of of what he and Sundance finally, when they found each other again, you know, they there there was a whole there was another tangent to that meeting as well, but but to to finally get those tapes back was was really wonderful. And for for Ken to find him was he he was the guy to find them. You know, he was the guy to track them down. Ken's the most one of the most tenacious, you know, he doesn't let up, you know, and he never will. He's gonna be busy forever. And uh he's just wonderful.

Matt 27:05

Everything that I've I haven't spoken to Ken, but everything I've heard about him, and everything I've read about him, and everything that Bill Nowling told me about him when I spoke to him, you know, you just get the sense that there was not a man that was ready to retire.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

No. No. Everybody else has sort of settled back and been, you know, they're all back in business again together, and it's wonderful. Uh i you know, with us with with Allison Krause out here, you know, we and and being on that label, it's like homecoming, you know, because Rounder was uh this band was a big fish in a small pond. And and now it's back to to that, and we have complete trust in what they do. We've all had experience together before, and it's nice to be back with them, but they never retired. Uh they always kind of were sitting back thinking about it. You know, I don't think any of them wanted to retire. Bill can write, you know, a hundred more books about the Boston Red Sox, and uh everybody will be happy because he's you know a leading proponent. But Marion was sort of relaxed, but she's just like Ken. I I she's she's not ready to retire and and to to go into a lawn chair somewhere. None of them are. I can't imagine them ever being that way. They just work hard.

Matt 28:35

Yeah, yeah, it's incredible. Um and kind of just I'd love to talk just for a minute about kind of what happened for you after Boon Creek. Because you did you go straight into working with the whites at that point? Was that kind of I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

I I I went back to the country gentleman for for about six months. Or and uh I called up Doyle Lawson and I said, you know, but Doyle, I'm I'm in between. I've I need to need to need something to do. And he said, Well, come on back. Come on back to us. And and I did, and and it was wonderful to come back to the band and and and play with those guys again. But at the same time, I had done some work with the whites, with Buck White and Cheryl and Sharon, and it was just like it was the perfect foil for me having that beautiful harmony going and to be able to back that up. That was in the back of my head. And uh and it finally we finally figured out how to do it. And uh, so they they actually came to to Virginia and moved me to Tennessee. They they physically moved me. And uh and they became family to me in uh in every possible way. And uh after after the whites, you know, I just star I started doing so many sessions in town that it became you know, when I'd left town I I lost mu I lost money and I had a young family and I had to figure out what are my priorities here, you know, and and to but to leave the whites was a a terribly uh painful thing because it was like leaving you leaving home, you know, again because I'd already done that when I was sixteen, you know, going on the road with the country gentleman. So here I am again uh you know twenty-five years old by then, but playing with the whites, and but getting all of these sessions, I was in the studio for but for for about 15 years, you know, doing three sessions a day most days. And uh it was it it added up, and there are a lot of records that I played on, but you know none of them that have given me any more satisfaction than playing with the whites or you know, especially now with Allison, you know, those those records were all country records, and some of them were hit records, and it was nice having Dobro on the radio, and and I I hit it at just the right time during the traditional country movement. It was when Emmy Lou came in and Ricky and Randy Travis, you know, and I was playing on all of those records and did that for a long, long time uh until I started to feel burnt out on it.

Matt 31:31

That um it's interesting to hear hear you talk about working with those vocals and those harmonies and the whites, because certainly something that I strongly believe, and the lots of people I've talked to on the podcast, is that when it comes to somebody who knows how to instrumentally back up a singer and place the perfect note or the perfect phrase between vocal lines, like Jerry Douglas is the first person people always mention, and it feels like that was a big part of your kind of development.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Playing with the whites was was my training ground for you know how to how to stay out of the way of the lyric and the singer, but uh also keep in mind what the substance of the song is and how what even what uh octave to play uh against, you know, the the vocal, you know, or how to ghost the vocal and make it seem like there's a harmony at some points, but it's dobro, it's not another voice. But the dobro is like a voice, you know, so much like a voice that I can I can do that. I can sneak around behind the vocalist and and uh sort hopefully add something to it, but my my uh goal is to never distract from what the vocalist is doing. If if I'm in the way, I'm gone. You know, I I'd rather not play or play one note as to smother someone that's singing. And that's that's come in really handy and in all of the singers that I've worked with in my life, you know, with Vince, with Ricky, with the whites, with Emmy Lou and uh James Taylor, you know, and anybody. Allison especially though. Allison is my that's that's my that's now my my my ground, my fertile ground that that I go to and try to play against her sweet voice, you know, and and not be an irritant, you know, but be be be a salve, you know, and uh and help help the vocal get along and make an impression.

Matt 33:48

And it's it's fabulous sort of being able to hear this Boon Creek record with all of that in mind, kind of knowing kind of what's come since and listening back. And you say you were saying before, like in some respects there's some musical things that date it, and just having a look at it, like just the cover. I would urge people who haven't seen this record to go and look at the cover because it's a glorious thing.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Oh, it's us in our beginnings. I mean, uh uh in our most expensive jacket that we could that we owned at the time, wear that. And uh yeah, it the Terry Balcom had just lost a t a ton of weight. Just a completely distant transformation of a person. And uh Wes Golding was the sweetheart of a guy, and and all the girls were chasing him all the time. And uh it was a fun band to be in, you know. We were we were growing up, we were learning how to play our instruments. I can hear that that you know, we're all in our infancy, you know, as as players at that point. And you to be able to go back and redo that part, I would love to do that, but that's what I sounded like then, and that's why I sound how I sound now. You know, it's it's it was a learning experience.

Matt 35:09

There's so many key bits of music in the string band world that just for whatever reason, you know, you can't like the first Grisman Quintet record, and there's just some things that haven't made it back out. And so just hope that with the the work that Kraft are doing with Rounda and Concord that more and more of these things will see the light of day again because it's just great to have them there.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

I think they will. I think they will. I think that's their credo is the you know to bring to bring the music back to light and uh to bring some things back, you know. You can't bring everything back, but uh it's all you can find it all it but you couldn't have found these four cuts of this record, of this Boon Creek record anywhere, but they did not exist and they were in such bad condition that you couldn't play them. But they've been miraculously uh brought back to life. And that that's amazing to me. It's just as a as a studio geek, I'm I'm I'm amazed that they could do what they did to bring it back and for it to sound that good, you know, and and to pop into the record and sound like part of the record. It they did a they did a fabulous job. And uh I'm I'm really happy to hear those songs again after all this time. They were just gone. They were just gone. You know, we we couldn't even imagine how we we couldn't hear them anymore, so we didn't remember how we'd recorded them. So they they just were gone off the landscape, and it's nice to have them back.

Matt 36:47

It's uh and it's a really fun listen, and it's been a really fun time to get to chat to you about it, Jerry. Thanks so much. My pleasure, Matt. Anytime.